Author Archives | Joe

Google Changes Hurt Exact Match Domains

Google changes hurt exact match domains

The Final Nail in the EMD Coffin?

This past weekend Google released another SERP algorithm change where EMDs got hit HARD and are no longer ranking.  What we do know is that EMD’s were not de-indexed in anyway, but were cast out into the nether reaches of the search engine index.

It seems like this last change for Google is the final nail in the coffin for Exact Match Domains (EMD).  We can assume going forward having an exact match domain will no longer benefit you in ANYWAY?


Matt Cutts tweeted this out last friday…

Matt Cutts Tweet - Changes for EMD's

I can speak first hand that this started Saturday morning.  Almost every single site I have that was an EMD was effected going from the front page of Google to position 175 or worse in the SERPs.  This will certainly hurt many marketers with Halloween coming up.

Note: is “This is unrelated to Panda/Penguin. Panda is a Google algorithm filter aimed at fighting low quality contentPenguin is one aimed at fighting web spam.”

The question is what constitutes “LOW QUALITY” sites?

Many sites effect have good authoritative links with lots of unique relative content but were still effected.

It’s still too soon to know how things will turn out.  Google has been talking about changing the way they rank EMD’s for a while now.. it  seems that they’s finally decided to make this change.

I can’t see that Google is no longer going to take the domain name into account when determining what the site is about.  If this is the case then ONLY back links, quality content, and most import authoritative back links are going to be important.

I’m sure social signals are also going to be more heavily weighted.. but at this point all of this is just guessing.


Posted in SEO - Link Building0 Comments

How to Transfer Your Domain Away from Godaddy

No Go DaddyAlot of people are getting frustrated with Godaddy’s practices of hidden fees, sneaky auto renewals, support of internet legislation like SOPA, as well as a host of other issues.

If you’ve ever tried to transfer you domain away from Godaddy, the process can be a bit confusing as to exactly what you need to do in order to make the transfer successful.

In this video I show you first hand how to transfer your domain from Godaddy.  Watch as I take you step by step where you will see me transfer two domains from Godaddy to my recommended domain name registrar NameSilo.

 To transfer a domain you will need to perform two steps:

  • Obtain an EPP code (Godaddy calls this an Authorization Code) from the current registrar and give it to the new registrar.

This will automatically generate an confirmation email to the administrative contact listed on the domain itself.

  • Click the confirmation link within the transfer email.

That’s it!

Be sure to remove any domain locking that might be enabled on the domain itself.  Godaddy has this set to ON by default, so be sure to turn this off before beginning the transfer process.



Posted in Domains0 Comments

hidden fees

Beware: Domain Registrars Charging Hidden fees

hidden feesAs I was checking my email this morning I noticed something that I hadnt’ noticed before from an email from Godaddy.  Godaddy will send emails from time to time tell you that your domains are expiring and prompting you to renew them.

At the bottom of this email was a notice stating that if I didn’t renew my domain names with a 12 day grace period I would be charged an $80 fee to reclaim my domain because it had expired.

Here’s what the notice looked like:

Typically when a domain name expires, it enters into a 45 days renewal grace period where the owner can renew the domain. (In Godaddy’s case they invented a 12 day renewal grace period after which they charge you $80 domain name redemption fee)

Many registrars, in order to spur domain renewals are immediately changing DNS to point the domain name to a parked page where advertisements are shown. (NOTE: the money earned from these ads go directly to the registrar NOT to you!)

After the 45 day renewal grace period the domain enter into a 30 days Redemption Grace Period. (Again many registrars will charge you a fee if you try to renew your domain with this period)

Here’s a graphic depicting the expiration times for a domain name:

expired domain process

Thanks to for the image

Here in the following video I reveal a couple registrars that are charging fees to reclaim a domain that has allegedly expired. I also show you one registrar that is cheap and does not have any hidden fees like this.

Posted in Domains0 Comments

Easing the Hassles Of Managing Passwords

managing passwords - free ways to make it happenManaging passwords can be a chore.   Everyday it seems we have a new account or a new web site some where that we need to log in and have a user id and password to access some crucial information we need.

In our day to day lives alone, keeping up with passwords is a hassles, but as Internet Marketers it is exponentially worse.

Multiple WordPress sites, cPanel, email, etc.

The bigger your business becomes the more accounts you have and the more passwords you have to keep track of.

  • Your hosting account
  • Paypay account
  • Every website you build
  • Every Affiliate Network account you have
  • Email accounts
  • Database accounts
  • Membership sites
  • the list goes on and on

Many people use the same password for everything.  but this could mean trouble if a hacker cracks just one of your passwords and basically now own EVERYTHING you’ve built.

You need to have different passwords for different accounts.  And this is NOT EASY!

Keepass for Managing Passwords

managing passwords

One way I’ve found to manage all of these passwords everywhere is with a free application called KeePass.  Don’t worry when I say it’s free it’s totally free, open source software.  You don’t even have to provide an email address.

You can download Keepass here

Keepass allows you to store and manage all of your user i.d.’s and passwords complete secure in an encrypted vault on your hard drive.

Keepass Main Window

Keepass allows you to store:

  • Windows Logon
  • Network Logon
  • Internet user id’s and passwords
  • Email passwords
  • Home banking passwords

It’s completely secure because the passwords are kept in a small database file on your hard drive.  This file is locked a single MASTER password that only you know.  The database file is fully encrypted and secured.

The benefits of Managing Passwords with Keepass

  1. Like I said – it’s a FULLY Encrypted  PASSWORD VAULT!
  2. It’s completely FREE!
  3. You can save the database file in a dropbox folder or in a Google Drive folder and access your passwords from just about anywhere.
  4. App versions available for iPhone and Android

 The problems with Keepass

  1. The instructions can leave some folks scratching their head
  2. Not intuitive
  3. Does not automatically fill out web forms
  4. Only works on Windows

Keepass works great for anyone who is on a tight budget, is tired of  managing passwords in their head, and doesn’t need to auto fill out web forms and doesn’t mind the look and feel.

Give it a try – check it out here –

If  have any trouble what-so-ever, leave a comment below or email me and I can walk you through.

Roboform for Managing Passwords and Filling Out Forms

manage password with roboform

For those who would like a way of managing passwords and want something a bit more polished and easy to use then the best answer is RoboForm.

For Internet Marketers Roboform is the creme of the crop for managing  and tracking user id’s and p

asswords, and filling out forms (which we seem to do ALL OF THE TIME!)

Roboform can manage all of your password in a very nice and easy to use interface.  But that’s not all, Roboform will remember your forms that you fill out and learns your information.  The next time you come to a form, Roboform can fill in all of your information for you!

It can be a huge time saver.

Roboform is compatible with almost every browser made and works on all platoforms

Roboform has a couple  different versions

  • Standard Windows install
  • Roboform on the go – Roboform installed on a USB thumb drive
  • Mac OS X
  • iPhone
  • Android

If you want to compare Keepass with Roboform – there is a free trial available for Roboform where you can install it for free and see which one you like best.

I love Roboform and have used for several years.

But if you don’t have the money right now, then Keepass is a great tool that is a secure way of managing passwords.

Posted in Featured, Free Stuff0 Comments

Increase Your Affiliate Marketing To A Greater Degree Of Success

affiliate marketingThere are lots of different ways to market with affiliates, depending on your technical expertise. Also of great importance in your efforts is the product you are promoting itself, as well as who makes up your potential customer base. Working with affiliate marketing should not conjure images of spam. There is quality work involved. A strategy must be developed beforehand.

When a visitor comes to your site, they are prepared for information relevant to the topic that brought them there in the first place. Therefore, the link you put on an affiliate website should be spo0rts related to be of any benefit. Having link that are relevant to your target audience is always more effective.

Always have a social media strategy when doing affiliate marketing, as Google monitors social media trends. Social media is a factor in bookmarked sites and search results. Many popular social media websites, including Facebook and Twitter, use comments, tweets and other elements to create links to every page.

When getting involved in affiliate marketing, it’s important to work with an affiliate company that has products you truly believe in and would be happy to promote and sell. Entering into agreements with a vast range of affiliate networks will give you multiple lines of income. Being selective about your affiliates will provide some assurance that you will be able to work effectively and comfortably together for a long time.

Keeping up on current market trends is vital to success. If you are lacking the proper knowledge, customers will notice and they will take their business elsewhere.

Statistics that are tracking current traffic numbers and rankings are essential for running a good website. This kind of reporting lets you see exactly how many visitors you have had, at what time, and whether or not they made any purchases.

To be a successful affiliate it is essential that you learn how to market effectively. There are many people that jump at using the free options. There isn’t anything intrinsically wrong with this, but if the method isn’t effective, then the fact that it’s free doesn’t matter.

One very good way to advertise your affiliate website to a lot of people is to advertise in venues your target audience is bound to frequent. This strategy will give your visitors a way to find other links that are relevant to their needs.

Creating a separate website for affiliates can increase sales of your products and services. Always make sure that your affiliate program is presented clearly in order to increase your partners. Getting your page on search engines can even draw in new affiliates who haven’t seen your product before.

Use paid ads for more profits. Paid advertising can really help to boost your business. Increased site traffic means that you have more potential customers seeing your products.

When deciding on products to sell for your affiliate partners, focus your marketing efforts on the people who would most likely purchase these products. Low-click approaches can work for cheaper products. If your product carries a higher price tag, you should opt for focused selling.

Referral programs are worth investigating if they are offered by the affiliate marketing programs of which you are a member, so check them out. Certain businesses will offer better compensation if you refer other people to their company. Some companies might even give you a commission for a referral. Use your position in the market to build an active referral portfolio.

There is an undeniable spectrum of quality when it comes to affiliate websites. There are some that can be frustrating or just plain difficult to navigate. Of course, this is not the best case scenario; however, a website owner who is proactive won’t allow an affiliate website with a poor design to stand in the way of making a profit. You establish trust through this method and garner purchases.

Tracking Service

Starting small can be the best way to work your new affiliate marketing business. If you are willing to learn new things during the process, you will increase your likelihood of succeeding. By doing this, you will become more prepared to compete in tougher niches.

Use a reputable tracking service that provides accurate reports of what you are owed. There will be times that affiliates will miscount sales, and you will risk losing money. Constantly use a tracking service that is legitimate in order to save yourself from this dilemma. You may have to pay for this service, but it is worth it.

If you use these ideas, you will be able to find how to get the right people and make a good profit. As you work within the market, you will learn your own methods and techniques that may surpass even these mentioned here. It is important to be on guard against allowing your marketing plan to become too complex. Simple is often better

Know your audience when you’re looking for new affiliates. This will get you more visitors and tell your readers that you are an expert and know what products they are likely to buy.

Posted in Internet Marketing1 Comment

affiliate marketing

Tips For A Smart And Successful Affiliate Marketer

affiliate marketingThat’s great timing! This article will lead the way to helping you to start this process. The advice that follows will give you all the information you need for achieving success in your affiliate marketing venture.

It may take time to determine which of your advertising techniques has been most successful in bringing site traffic and sales. Some demographics may convert well when shown high-tech media advertisements, whereas unobtrusive text ads could work better for other demographics. Therefore, it is imperative that you are clear about who your ads are targeting.

Be careful not to begin your affiliate marketing company on too large of a scale. This will enable you to learn as you go along, and to have easier initial success. Then when you move to more challenging niches you’ll have the experience and knowledge necessary for success.

Choosing the hottest products to promote as an affiliate may mean thinner profits. Market quality is important, but quality doesn’t mean oversaturation. The downside of promoting hot products is the intense competition. You may be unable to make any money.

Lifetime Commissions

Statistics in real time are essential. They help you see visitor and customer numbers clearly.

Lifetime commissions are hard to come by in affiliate marketing. However, it should still be pursued since potential rewards are endless. Businesses with affiliate programs offer webmasters a commission on each product sold through their website. Usually, commissions are under some sort of time constraint. Lifetime commissions are a huge income stream, so they are still worth looking for.

You could use trivia questions in banner ads that require the reader to visit you to receive the correct answer. Many people will not be able to resist clicking that banner. Offer some type of additional discount to those potential customers who got the correct answer to the question.

Since Google puts a high value on relevant social media content, your affiliate marketing efforts should be geared towards maximizing its potential with the search engines. Google logs sites and produces its search results while paying attention to social media. Twitter and Facebook are examples of sites that have links to tweets and comments.

This will make your website more accessible to a wider audience, including older people. Sometimes something simple like making your font larger within your website can make potential customers more likely to buy your product. If it’s larger they will see it and it may just catch their eye and interest them!

Getting a successful affiliate marketing effort off the ground can require an initial investment on your part. Re-invest part of your profit into your marketing campaigns for ad space on sites and services across the web. There are three sites that are the best for advertising: Facebook, Yahoo, and Google.

You should choose an affiliate that offers several ways to access your payments. Companies have different payment options such as check by mail, direct deposit through your bank and online options like AlertPay and PayPal.

Affiliate Marketing

You should feel much more confident when you sit down to create your affiliate marketing plan. You may have felt like you were prepared before reading this article, but now that you have read it, you should be a master in affiliate marketing. The tips presented to you in this article, if followed correctly, will give you a good understanding on how to promote your site with affiliate marketing

Many of the people who sign up will unsubscribe, and you’ll need to track down new customers. Send new customers only high-performing email blasts to keep them interested in your products.

Posted in Internet Marketing0 Comments

affiliate marketing companies

New To Affiliate Marketing? Try Using These Tips!

affiliate marketing companiesAffiliate marketing is turning into something a lot of people are aware of and trying out today. All that means is you’re going to have more competition out there as more and more sites are available for people to see. With that being said you want to make sure you are always learning new tips and strategies to stay ahead of the game, so coming to this article was a great idea.


Don’t forget to include a page on your website that links to any resources you find helpful which relate to the topic of your website, and then use your affiliate marketing links throughout to point people to services or products you’re selling that might also help them. For example, if you have a website about hockey you could link to the Hockey Hall of Fame, your favorite hockey stick on Amazon, and Rock ‘Em Sock ‘Em videos on eBay.

Affiliate only with reputable companies that are sure to stick around long enough to pay you for the hard work that you’re doing to promote their products. Fly-by-night companies come and go, but affiliate programs like eBay or Amazon, have been around for almost the entire life of the public internet itself!


Amazon one of the king in it’s field, but occasionally someone causes an uproar in the media, and their reputation can take a hit. They’re a big company, so they’re able to recover quickly, but other companies might not be able to whether a storm as well. Having multiple affiliate programs means you can switch out any when their reputation takes a plunge.

If you’re just getting into affiliate marketing, your best bet is to start with Amazon. Create a few niche websites which each link to a variety of products on Amazon that your audience wants to buy. From there you can branch out into other affiliate programs to ensure you have a broad portfolio to choose from.


Automate your business. This will immensely help in your time management and efficiency. You will find there are many tools, services and ideas around to help you. For example autoresponders, mailing software, automated order processing and affiliate payments (for example ClickBank). Also, email filters, canned email replies, text replacement utilities, automatic domain and hosting renewal plans. These can all be used to help you to save time in responding to your customers.

One great way to always stay ahead of the game in affiliate marketing is to be among the first people to advertise a newly released product. To stay ahead of the game and to promote products before the market becomes saturated, check out various large companies, like Clickbank and find out about new products.

All of the tips you just learned should help you become successful through affiliate marketing. Remember that there are other people out there who want to do the same thing you want to do, so always keep on the lookout for new information you can use in your arsenal as you compete for success.

Posted in Internet Marketing0 Comments

clickbank profit storm

Interview with Andrew Macleod

interview with andrew macleodI’ve come to know Andrew Macleod from buying some of his best WSO’s (Warrior Special Offers).  Andrew created a product called Profit Storm that I felt was one of the best products you could buy.

And since I was doing an interview series on product creation, what better person to have included in the series.  My only fear was whether or not he would agree to the interview.

I took a chance and sent Andrew an email asking if he would be interested.  I explained what I was doing and how impressed I was with his product.  The next thing I knew he agreed and I was on my way to interviewing him.

In this interview with Andrew, he explains his method of product creation, some of his background and some of his influences.  He is a super nice guy and if you ever get a chance to pick up one of his products I highly recommend it.

Here is the Interview with Andrew Macleod


Get the entire interview series at

Joe: Hi this is Joe Wilson from Today I’m interviewing Andrew MacLeod, and I’m interviewing Andrew in a special interview series on marketing breakthroughs and how to make ten thousand dollars creating your own products that will rocket you to success. So, Andrew, welcome to the call.

Andrew: Oh, thank you Joe, it’s a, pleasure to be here, and I appreciate the invite.

Joe: Oh, thank you, I mean, I really appreciate your time. So, basically, the, the big premise with, our interview is, to kinda pose to you, with a lot of the products you’ve worked on, I mean, you’ve just, had a, a stellar release on warrior forums with, uh, the WSO tycoon, and you’ve had, uh, quick-bank profit storm has done really well, and, I wanna get, from your point of view, to help others, when they’re making their products, any of the, any tips pr advice you might have, um, for anyone who’s considering creating their own product.

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, just off the top, just the first couple of things that come to mind when you mention that are, number one, proof, and number two, you know, that anything that you do, with respect to product creation should be market-driven, at least initially. And so I guess, I’ll, I’ll explain those two points just a little bit. The first is, is proof. And I think that, um, especially when it comes to creating a product on the warrior forum, but, but also just generally. Um, any kind of product that you might want to create is going to sell, you know, exponentially better , and, is going to, you know, just generally be more persuasive in terms of getting people to, step forward, raise their hand and say, I want this, if you can prove that, you know, it does what you say it does, and, there’s, there are a lot of products out there that don’t actually do that, and, um, in terms of actually you know, the difference between like, you know, a single and a home-run, really I think is, is a very strong proof element, the ability to show people that, when I say that um, you know, I’ve made sixteen thousand dollars in five months with WSO’s, that I, I can have a video and a screen shot showing people that, exactly, that I have, I have done exactly that , and that, therefore , there’s a reason to believe that I can show them how to do that as well. And so, that proof element, I think, is a very large part of any product success, as for the second point, you know, it’s something that they definitely, I think, when they, when people get into product creation, or get into marketing in general, they make the mistake of, of trying to be product-based first, before they’re market-based, and, you know, many people smarter than me have said this many times over, so at the risk of sounding, like uh, a bit of a broken record, you just, you have to focus on the market first. And and, get inside the market’s head, understand what the market wants, um, understand the sort of, they way that they talk to one another, the jargon that they use, and when you have a bit of a keen understanding of that market, um, you’re in a much better position to basically listen to what they want and then give them what they want. And so. If you’re doing that, and providing proof, you really have, the key base ingredients for a home run in terms of product, creation and um, product release.

Joe: I think you said in one of your products, and I can’t remember whether it was WSO tycoon or quick bank profit storm, where, you’re saying that, one of the things when you’re creating, or when you’re going after a niche, is to not, what was it, not go after a niche that you feel like, but go after a niche that has a demand.

clickbank profit stormAndrew: Yeah, absolutely. There’s, one of the, one of the best sorta, marketing parables that I can, I can, think of in, relation to that is, uh, they classic Gary Halbert question that he posed in, one, in one of his newsletters where he said, if I was, if you and I were competing as hamburger stand vendors, and we were going to set up shop up right next to each other, and I was to give you any advantage that you wanted. You could have, the, bet-superior quality of meat, better advertising, you could have, you know, more condiments, you could have, you know, all of these different benefits, you could have as many of them as you wanted, and as long as I had only one, I would beat you, hands down, every single time. And, at the end of the newsletter, he revealed that the one benefit that he would require is a starving crowd. And, it’s really, a, it’s, there’s a, you know, there’s some very powerful truth to that. if you, you know, all the other, you know, benefits that he’s suggesting in that parable that other people might want to ask for, you know, the superior meat, or the better advertising or whatever, that’s all, that’s all in the, you know, ‘what product do I feel like’ making’ range. The starving crowd is really starting with the, there’s a demand for this, and I’m, I’m in a position to serve that demand. And when you do it that way, which is I guess what I meant initially by saying ‘market-driven’, you listen carefully to what the market wants and then, you respond to that by giving them, what they’re demanding , it’s very hard to go wrong. Usually you go wrong when you do it the other way. (laughs) and I can speak to personal experience about that myself too.

Joe: (laughs) I think I can too. But, I guess when, someone’s going through this, you know, the biggest, I guess, initial fear that most people have, is that, well, I don’t, I don’t, I can’t speak to, I have a starving audience but I can’t feed them, you know, so to speak, because I don’t, I don’t have what they, what they’re wanting. What would have, what could you say to that?

Andrew: Well, uh, I would say two things. Number one, I’ll just put this out there quickly, it’s always better, it’s always better, if possible, if you could be the person that has the experience. and the best way to do that is to go out, and, you know, if you’re in this for the long haul, to go out there and to try different methods, and to add your own twists to them, and find out what works for you, find out what doesn’t, put together something that works for you , and , you’re in a, a place of unique power, because now you’ve got something that you’ve created for you, that you’ve got proof, that you can replicate the results, you’ve got all the elements. Now if that’s not, an option for whatever reason, there are other avenues that you, that you could use to, to fulfill the need of the starving crowd, so to speak. One of which would be, um, you could be the, you know, the, sort of like the researcher than the, you know, there’s more than one way to be an expert, I guess is, I guess is where I’m going here. And, if you want, you can compile information from other people. So, for example, this interview series is, is a perfect example of saying, take the experience of a number of different people and, funnel it all into one course, or, or one project ,right? There’s a perfect example of how you can, how you can take something, where you can, leverage the, the benefits of other people’s experience. There’s other ways to do that as well. You could team up, with, uh you know, you could be the product creation end and another person could be the experience end, and as long as you have the experience, that there is experience within your product or whatever that can serve the market, you’re going to be just fine. So, whether that’s teaming with a another warrior on a warrior forum, whether that’s teaming up with, uh, somebody on, like, some kind of outsourcing site, like, you know, like o-desk, or guru, or elance, or something like that . So maybe you need, uh, an SEO expert because, you know, you’ve got this process but, you know, you need something to help you with; it. You know, teaming up with somebody on elance or guru is a perfectly acceptable way to do that as well. So, uh I would say that teaming up with someone on warrior, or uh, or, even compiling, like, uh, something similar to what you’re doing here, with , uh, number of experts sort of all, giving their advice into, uh one single product, those are great ways to go.

Joe: Awesome. Yeah, and I would agree, I mean, you know, the matter, and, I guess, to add to that , I know, there’s been a lot of times where I’ve written, personally written an e-book or something, that, uh, that I knew, I knew, the subject matter, but it didn’t sell (laughs) nobody wanted it.. and, you know, whether, and you know, there’s a number of reasons why that could be, and it could be just, I mean, the thing is, I guess, the biggest thing is just to be, getting out there and doing something, right?

Andrew: Oh, absolutely. You know, you miss one hundred percent of the shots you didn’t take right? if you’re not, if you’re not trying, and, we’ve all, we’ve all been there at some point , so it’s not, it’s not like any of us are so different that we’ve never been in that position,

Joe: Right.

Andrew: Certainly, I’ve been there too. But, if you’re not, if you’re not getting out there and trying stuff, you’re not learning. And if you’re not, uh, it was kinda like a, you know, the principle of a missile or a torpedo, it doesn’t reach its target by a straight line, it kinda weaves has it makes minor, minute adjustments on the way to its target. That’s the way, that learning almost anything is, really, on your way to success, right? You have to make little adjustments, and the way you make those adjustments is by, trying something, and getting the results back, and whether it works or it doesn’t work, you can, make little adjustments, and, move towards success.

Joe: Till you finally get there, yeah. So, what was, I guess, if you remember, what was one of your first products that you ever, created?

Andrew: Um, well, really, my, I mean, other than selling lemonade when I was five (laughs) Pretty sure that doesn’t count. My first real, my first real crack at it, to be perfect honest with you, was uh, profit storm.

Joe: Yeah?

Andrew: Which maybe isn’t, isn’t a great story to tell if you want to talk about making adjustments towards success, but in some ways it is. There’s a couple of lessons I think from profit storm that could definitely benefit people. I took a lot of the lessons in terms making profit storm, I had no idea where to start, so I just sorta made up my own way of doing it, and it, it turned out that it worked out pretty well. But the ideas that I did borrow from other people, I actually got, largely, from uh, from, Gee Kowisocky and his book, the “Art of the Start”, and he was actually, a, he was a Macintosh Apple guy, he was around, he worked with, worked with Apple when they were developing their first computers and he had all these different, you know, ideas, that he suggested. And one of them was that, that always stuck with me, was that the product does not have to be perfect. The important thing is that you release it and then you make improvements to it. Because getting it out there is the most important thing. and if you, if you, you don’t get it out there – excuse me – quickly enough, you’re in a position where, you know, someone else can come along and get their product out there, and, again, like, that a lot of people , you know, they hold back and they’re waiting for perfection, you know, like, ooh, I don’t know, I don’t think it’s quite right quite right, that kind of a feeling, the reality is that you can just get it out there and make adjustments as you go, and, certainly that was the case with profit storm. When, when I first released it I, I said to myself, well, how would I want, how would I want to learn this? Now that I have this system that, for affiliate marketing, that’s making me money, how would I want to learn this? So I said, well, you know, everything out there, that I’ve picked up is is, has been an e-book. And it’s not, the best learning format, right? If I could make videos that would be really good. And, the other thing that I, you know, the audio quality is not very good on a lot of video products it’s, you know, it’s difficult to hear, or whatever. So, I, when I first made it I actually went down to a local music shop in Canada, (), I don’t know if they have that in the states or not,

Joe: Not that I’ve seen.

Andrew: But, I’m sure that there is an equivalent, sort of a company. But, I rented a, rented a studio, you know, USB microphone, for, twenty dollars for a month (laughs) and, and it makes, the quality in audio, it makes, I think it makes all the difference in the world really. It makes it easier to listen to, easier to, you know, pick up on and all that kind of stuff. and I just worked on the videos, putting in sorta of, straightforward or logical format as I could and, you know, continued to, I’ve cont’d to improve and upgrade the course, over time so, you know, the original course, is not nearly as good as the course as it stands today , and, maybe that’s, maybe there’s something listeners can take away from that, it’s just, it’s, it is ok to release something and then to improve it over time. And I think that my customers have really appreciated that, and I think that other people’s will, as well.

Joe: Yeah, I was, I know when I, when I opened up your product and I started taking a look at it, I was like, oh wow, I was really pleasantly surprised to find that there was more there, than what I was expecting and so you, there was more value their than what I had anticipated and that just really made me, really glad about my purchase, you know, when I did make it.

Andrew: Yeah, and I think, uh, I think that’s been my general sort of, my general branding or something. I think, we don’t really talk a whole lot about branding when it comes to WSO on the warrior forum, but at the end of the day, there is, a little bit of, um, there are a few things to be said about branding and I guess the biggest one is that, when you release a product as a WSO or any product, you are branding yourself. And it’s very important to be conscious about, your personal brand promise to your customers and whether or not you’re delivering on that. So, sorta figuring out what it is, in themes of the product that you stand for stand for and, whether or not, deliver on that. And one of the, one of the ones that I’ve tried to go for is, um, you know, excellent value at a great price, and, and sorta delivering that feeling, that when people get that product they’re very happy with, with what they bought, for what they paid. Um.

Joe: Yeah, I would, I would agree. Especially on warrior forums because, you know, unfortunately the way, the economy of the warrior forums goes, you tend to, um, you almost have to, people sell their souls out there, sometimes, you know, in order to get that brand recognition and to get a little notoriety.

Andrew: Hm-hmm, yeah, absolutely. And, it’s just, it’s one of those ways you can set yourself apart. I mean, as wonderful a forum as warrior forum is, and it certainly is a valued asset for myself and many many other people, there’s good stuff and there’s bad stuff, right? There’s um, products that deliver, and there’s products that are, you know, a little, dubious, in nature.

Joe: Yeah.

Andrew: And the reality is that, that’s life, I mean, you’ll find that, you’ll find that range almost anywhere you go in life. But it’s very important that when there’re, when there are good products and not so good products, that you, find a way to make sure that people understand that you’re one of the good guys, you know. So, and um, I talk a little more bit about that in in WSO tycoon as you know, just, managing your, moderating your product threads in a friendly, patient, compassionate way, and making sure that you’re let people know that you’re a real person, and um, you’re not there to, you know, mess anybody about, you’re there to, be honest and upright with them at all times. And, and that goes a long way.

Joe: Absolutely. Yeah, it sure does. And it comes through, too, so easily, you know, people can, see through you, if you’re being fake in some way, you know.

Andrew: Yeah, definitely, I think, I think a lot of people make that mistake, or at least I-I’ve seen a couple of people make that mistake and I’m not sure that they’re aware of, that they’re making it. when they release a video with, you know trying to sell a product, or they, they sell the product a certain way and when you actually open and you hear them talking and there’s a like a total difference between like, the tone in the fail thread, and then the tone in the way they actually talk to you in the video. (laughs) Like, the fail thread talks to you like, they’re, you know your best friend, and then you actually open the video and it’s like, they’re talking to you like they think you’re a moron or something, right? And it’s kinda like, this is, this is sorta interesting

Joe: Yeah.

Andrew: You know, this individual has a little bit of a tone in their voice as they’re sorta, teaching you, something, which is kind of a, question mark. But, ah, I digress. I’m pretty, pretty famous for being all over the map when it comes to, you know, thinking on my feet here. (laughs) hopefully that’s not, I’m not talking this interview too far off.

Joe: (laughs) No, no, trust me , yeah, we, we’ve talked, in some of these other interviews , we’ve went all the way out into affiliate marketing, you know, and digressed and had to come all the way back to product creation, so that’s, not a problem. So –

Andrew: Oh good, we’re relativity on track, that’s excellent.

Joe: Yeah, we, relativity on topic a bit, yeah. So, with your microphone and some of the stuff that your using today obviously you’re using () to do a lot of your product creation and you’ve, you know, you’re using, going with an audio technica microphone still, or you, have you moved to a headset?

Andrew: That’s correct, yeah

Joe: Yeah?

Andrew: No, I still, what I ended up purchasing the audio-technica microphone and then I purchased a boom stand as well , which is just a little swing stand that, you know, sits beside the, computer table and I can, just talk into it, kinda like a, radio host, my, but –

Joe: You lay your videos first, you do your videos first and then you come back over and narrate em, right?

Andrew: That’s correct. Now I, some people might, might not want to do it that way. I just find, personally, that, I’m one of those guys that has a hard time walking and chewing gum at the same time I guess or something (laughs) I make, when I’m actually doing the videos , when I’m, writing text down or I’m actually going through a process where I’m just doing, the think, I need to focus on that , and then, I can’t actually talk about that while I’m doing, it’s kinda difficult, the audio quality in terms of the information you get would be, would be not very good. So, I go back over, afterwards, and I, I do the narration, just so that I can add as much value as I can by focusing on what I’m saying.

Joe: Yeah.

Andrew: I find it helps me, anyways.

Joe: Yeah, I know, and it comes across really well. You know. There was a couple of times were like, you had, you had, because you had so much information in the narration, a lot of times, like, the video would be over but you’re still talking and I’m like, ‘wait a minute did I miss something? What am I doing?’ So I’d rewind and then go back. But, no, it’s just the way, it was just the way, yeah, the video portion was done, and then you still had all this audio that you were still, still explaining, which is, which is, I’m not complaining in any way. I thought it was, great –

Andrew: Yeah, no, it’s just what I said, when I focus on one at a time I find that I can give the maximum value, and I think it was you that brought up, actually brought up the point that the only thing that was missing was to have the audios as a separate file that you could listen to in some other format. So that’s actually, that’s actually a great suggestion, and, I’m actually going to get on that and, you know, put, a like, a little audio section in there with just the audios, so –

Joe: Oh cool, well, I’m glad, I’m glad that was helpful. Yeah, cause I was, when I went through it, I was listening to them and, and, you know, multi-tasking as we always do. And, you know, I, I still have a day job , so every morning I get up, and I I take the morning commute, in, into the city, and, and so I have, a half-hour, forty minutes or so , you know, that I’m just sitting there, and I really can’t stand the the, morning DJ babble, you know.

Andrew: Oh yeah, yeah, gosh, those guys are awful, aren’t they? it doesn’t matter what city you’re in, they always get, you know, three or four knuckleheads on there to just, flapping their gums away about something. And it’s, it’s like, you sorta feel like you’re losing your brain a little bit as you listen to them talking (laughs).

Joe: Yeah, exactly, and and it’s, yeah, yeah, enough, yeah, exactly. So yeah, and that’s really good to know that, that we can look forward to seeing some, audio formats, from you, on those portions, cause I think that would be, really helpful.

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. No I, appreciated the suggestion, I think it’ll definitely, make it more helpful of people, so that’s great.

Joe: Well, Andrew, do you have, let’s see, if you, if you have, if you have, a tip, or one, one shining piece of advice, so to speak, you know, that you would, or a warning or something, that you would give to somebody who, they’re, they’re starting to create their own project, they’re wanting to create their own project, they’ve been on the fence, and, would there be one, if you were like a, big brother to somebody to say, you know, ok, if you’re going to do this, I want you to do it this way, or, do you have any advice for somebody, one, one good tip for them?

Andrew: Um, my, probably my one good tip would be, when you’re first starting out the biggest mistake that you’re going to make is thinking that you have to make something new that hasn’t been made before. And it’s totally wrong, it’s, it’s not true at all. But we, live in a society and a culture that celebrates, we celebrate the innovators while, while sorta being slightly in denial about the reality of the, toil and frustration that is innovation. And, you know, everyone looks at someone like Steve Jobs, for example, and says like , you know, when he comes out with something new, like, the iPod or the iPad , I mean, what a great success, and isn’t this brilliant, and everything else , but, the reality is that, when the iPad, you know, came out, and they’ve made, it sold, very very well, but, the people that are going to make better margins are, blackberry, and other competitors , now that they already know, that there’s a hot market for the iPad, they’re going to come in with their product, which is going to cost them less to research, less to create, less to put together and they’re going to make better margins, and I guess, so, that’s a little bit of a (laughs) digression, but, so my –

Joe: No, that’s, those, that’s great, great analogy, yeah.

Andrew: My, my, what I would say to somebody, sorta like big brother, would be, you’re trying to shoot fish in a barrel here. not trying to do something that’s never been done , something that’s untested and unproven, because , even though, there is this overwhelming feeling like, that’s what you’re supposed to do, the reality is that innovators, they they fail far more often than they succeed, and the number two competitor in the market, the person that, after the innovator has actually created something, that the market wants, it’s the second guy in, the number two guy in, that creates something similar, but, with a slightly different marketing position, that gets all of the money, most of the time. So, so go after the markets that have been proven to buy things. If you’re going to make a product, you don’t have to say, you don’t have to pace around in circles going ‘what can I make that hasn’t been made before?’ because if it’s not already out there, that’s a war-danger sign, not a good sign. So, you want to look for something that has already sold, really well, at least in terms of general, product category, and then, in terms, inside that category, once you’ve identified , ok, like, I know that courses on affiliate marketing, teaching people about click bank , or teaching people about CPA have already sold really well. So, what can, what can I do in that product niche, where I can add some value, do something, you know, a little bit innovative, in terms of maybe a new twist on it, an new way of doing it, a simpler way of getting the traffic, you know, just, little innovations, in an already profitable market, that would be my, main suggestion.

Joe: So don’t be afraid of the competition, either.

Andrew: No.

Joe: Or think, that, well just because this is a, hot market, everybody’s in there, don’t make any assumptions, like that.

Andrew: Yeah, there’s always room for one more. Don’t ever be afraid of competition. Competition is how you know you’re that, you’re probably digging in the right spot. So I guess, that would be, that would be, my, my biggest tip, cause I, I would say probably the number one, number cause of failure, in terms of products, is just that they, there’s a lot of pressure, self-imposed pressure to try, to try and make something that’s never been made before, and, that’s just not the way that, not the way that it usually works out the best, in most cases.

Joe: Awesome. So I guess, that brings us around to, what are you working on today? What’s going on with, with you Andrew right now? What’s, what’s your, plan, for the near future, I know you just came out with WSO tycoons, so you’re probably, still, kinda working with that, but I’d be interested to know where you’re at today?

Andrew: Well, well, we start with the () of today, I, I’ve been, a full time internet marketer and and marketing consultant, here for, over a year now, so, I woke up, about an hour and a half ago.

Joe: Wow, sweet. That’s awesome.

Andrew: Which is, I don’t know. I’ve always been more of a, night-hawk , kind of a person, like waking up early, I’ve had jobs where I’ve had to wake up extremely early and it was never, it was never something that improved my performance in any regard (laughs). So.

Joe: Well I tell you, your story of the, when you were working on the oil rig, that was, I was, that’s actually a really good story that you, it’s part of your copy, ah, profit storm, I thought that was interesting, I mean, how you came from –

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. I’ve, it was not exactly the most fun you could ever have, but certainly a part of my life and a part of my history, yeah, too, at one point, just when, the, just just before the financial crisis started crumbling around everybody, but I was, I had been working on an oil rig for some time to, to sorta make ends meet. God, that’s not a lot of fun.

Joe: Yeah.

Andrew: It does motivate you though to find alternative options, I’ll tell you that. (laughs)

Joe: (laughs) Yeah, I would think so, yeah. Cause just reading it I was like, ‘oh my god,’ I was, no matter how bad my day is, I just, that one day on a rig just sound like it’s gotta be the worst , worst-

Andrew: Yeah, it’s absolutely brutal. And I wasn’t, I wasn’t even like a, quote-on-quote skilled, you know labor , I’m one of those, so I wasn’t a drill hand, or a motor hand, or a derrick hand, I was the, the floor hand, which is colloquially known as the rig-pig , which is the guy who stands at the bottom of the grate and gets covered in oil while he, does every filthy job imaginable, there are, quite a few filthy jobs on an oil rig, I can tell you.

Joe: Ah, gosh. But, back to-

Andrew: Yeah, I guess – oh sorry, go ahead.

Joe: No, I was just, gonna say, I was living in Texas for a while, and there’s a lot of people, a lot of friends of mine, yeah, they would get jobs on rigs, and, and various different, you know, oil projects and, every single one of them never had a good thing to say.

Andrew: Well, yeah, I mean, you make, you make decent money but it’s not, you know, it it took me a long time to figure this out, probably longer than it should have but it’s not about how much money you make, it really is about the money that you make, and then, comparing it to, you know, how you make it, in terms of, you know, the quality of life, it’s providing you with. Like if you, you could make three hundred thousand a year, but if you, like, work, eighty hours a week, like, your quality of life is pretty much, it’s questionable right? It’s very questionable. And so, there has to be that, at least for me I found that, there has to be that balance between like, making money, but also making it in a way that, you wake up and you actually enjoy life. You know, you don’t, cursing the skies every day, so (laughs).

Joe: (laughs)

Andrew: Yeah, back to, back to sorta what I’m doing, these days. I’m still, still just handling, WSO tycoon which is, you know, sold very well, so I’m, I’ve taken on a couple of, couple of copywriting projects for a few warriors that have requested that I write, re-write their, copy write for them, and, other than that, I am looking, considering, opening up my copywriting services to, members, like anybody in the forum as a separate, you know, service,

Joe: Right.

Andrew: Although I’m, I’m sorta weighing, the, the pros and cons of like, the opportunity to continue, um, improving my copy by, you know, getting the extra contracts with, with the time and intensity of writing copy, which is, it’s very, it’s reasonably time intensive, and, in some ways, that goes slightly counter to the, the goals of the IM lifestyle (laughs) so. and, you know, that’s actually that’s one of the reasons that, that I don’t offer, you know, a lot of guys offer a one-on-one coaching and all that kind of stuff, and then they try and stuff as many people in as they can, and I had, I had one customer ask me ‘why, why don’t you offer, one-on-one coaching’? I said, well, you know, the thing about one-on-one coaching is that, you know, it’s, there’s a set time, and a set schedule to it, so, you know, it’s, if you get, a reasonable number of people involved with your coaching, it sorta becomes a real job, and, that’s not really, you know one of the benefits , definitely, for me, is to be able to make money and, also, at the same time, have free time, I think, free time is like, and, disposable time, or, or, discretionary time. And is, one of the huge benefit and draws to, internet marketing, so. I like to keep mine as free as possible, (laughs), so I can sleep in, until the crack of noon.

Joe: Yeah, right?

Andrew: But, yeah.

Joe: Time is, time is like, our, that’s our most valuable asset, if you think about it, you know?

Andrew: Yeah, certainly, not everyone has come to that, you know, experience or realization yet, but, certain, certainly I’m there, and, a number of other people are as well. You only have to work a few jobs that you really hate before you realize how important time is, and how time can slow down to second by second when you’re doing something really unpleasant. So, yeah, definitely. but yeah, in terms of what else, what else is on, on the horizon here, um, at this point, not too much , just sorta, humming along smoothly, thinking about, I’m thinking about maybe creating a membership, sort of a thing, where, I, I deliver basically the same WSO quality of products and things every month but to, you know, a group of subscribers, so that, I sorta stop, advertising things publicly on the warrior forum, that’s sorta been an idea, that’s… you know, again, all of these, these things that I come up with, like the ideas that I come up with, a lot of them have to do with, you know, peo- customers or other warriors, emailing me or private messaging me and requesting these things. I get enough requests and it starts to make sense all of a sudden. So, it’s all about, what I said before, listening to what the market wants. Like when I get ten warriors that say, hey, I really like your copy, would you like to write some copy for me. It sorta occurs to me at that point, after I get beaten over the head with it, that, this might be a good idea to offer. So I think, yeah, that’s pretty much all that’s, all that’s going on right now. I have a couple of, little fun projects that I’m working on, one of which, one of which is an offline marketing, sort of a project. I, I have to admit, I’m –

Joe: A lot, a lot of people are getting into offline marketing big-time. I mean, I guess there’s a big demand for it right now. Cause I know, it’s huge, on warrior forum.

Andrew: Yeah, it’s, it’s become a very power product niche on market on warrior forum for sure, and, I think the reason why people want to get into it is pretty, pretty clear, there’s a huge market for it. The market is relatively ignorant of the processes or the process that, that drive SEO and web marketing and stuff like that. So, anytime that you have, you know, intangible value on the table you’re, you’re in a position to, within reason, name your price, which makes offline marketing very attractive. Certainly it’s, it’s not something that I’m drawing , you know, any, significant amount of income from at this point, I’m literally, I like playing around with it, so I’ve, I’ve almost started a couple of different offline marketing things but, that’s, just one of those things, I think everybody has something they like to tinker with,

Joe: Sure.

Andrew: And, even though I’ve got a couple of things that are working for me, I’ve just been tinker around with offline marketing so, whatever, whatever turns into something, I, the warrior forum will be sure to know, I’m sure.

Joe: Right. Well that, and that’s the great thing about, being at a, a position where you’re full time and, you’ve got, you’ve got your, your revenue streams that are coming into your life, and you’ve got the time to now, sit back and go, ok, now what do I want to do, what do I want to work on. What do I want to do, you know, in order to kinda, make my life better, or to, generate more income, or whatever it is you may want to have as a goal.

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely , you get to start, you get to start, asking really neat questions, that, that give you, inspiration for life, and I think that that, coming from a person that, at several periods in my life, I have not had a lot of inspiration. You know, based on what I had to do to make money. the oil rig being one of those (laughs) I, I absolutely appreciate that ability for sure. So you get to ask yourself really neat questions when all of a sudden it’s, you know, keeping a roof over your head and all that stuff is no longer, is no longer a stressor. You get to sit, ask questions like, what can I do with what I’m doing right now to leverage it even more, so that, every time I work for an hour, this process or this system or this method, it works for twenty hors, or forty hours, or, what can I do to leverage, everything I’m doing as much as possible, so that, you know, so that it not only continues to be effective, it increases the amount of free time that I have to, that I have at my, discretion. Which is, it’s a really neat sort of question because any of the answers that you come up with are gonna sorta lead you in that direction of more free time, more freedom les, less work, more fun, which is, it’s awesome, right?

Joe: Yeah, definitely. Well Andrew, thank you, so much for being on the call, and, sharing all your experiences I mean, the, WSO tycoon , I think, it was a first, I mean, Mike Lance, handing out WSO pro license, was, was amazing. And I think (laugh)

Andrew: Yeah, I was thrilled that he decided to do that, it was very generous of him, and, it was a good fit, really I think, because the WSO tycoon takes you through, you know, how to become very proficient with WSO pro, so I think it’s, sorta like the perfect pairing to actually have the license go with it, but yeah, that was awesome, I was very thrilled that he decided to do that.

Joe: Yeah, that was, and I have to, I have to be honest cause I saw, I saw, you know, you have WSO’s of the day come by, all the time, and, you see them and you’re like, ok, ok, I don’t, I’m not there, it’s a bright shiny object, I can’t, I gotta ignore it, I have to move on.

Andrew: (laughs) Totally, totally, cause there’s always, well, I mean, it’s the marketing, right? they’re always positioned in that way, Mike is very good with his headlines in terms of, being able to write, you know, a hundred characters or less that make you just have to click through to find out what it’s all about, he’s he’s very good at it, for sure. (laughs)

Joe: Yeah. But yeah, so, yeah, and so, when I saw, when I saw, he’s over, he’s over here, just like, just, blowing away, and, giving it away, I’m like, ok, alright, hold on, I have to stop what I’m doing, and, and this is a bright shiny object I need to check out, and I’m really glad I did, I really am. W’s – getting more familiar with WSO’s is always been something that’s been on my to do list of what I wanted to do , but, you always kinda like, you get excited about your own project and you just kinda throw it out there, and slap it up against the wall and see if it sticks, you know.

Andrew: Yeah.

Joe: And most of the time it doesn’t. But anyway. Andrew, oh, thank you so much, it’s been great to have you on the call, and, we look forward to, seeing more, great stuff from you, and, I know that the listeners have really had a good time here, with this interview.

Andrew: Oh thanks, thank you again for the invite, I really appreciate it, and, hopefully my, my rambling all over the place, has, yeah, given your listeners something, to, that will hopefully help them move forward in taking that next step towards, product creation and success.

Joe: Absolutely, thanks.

Posted in Andrew Macleod1 Comment

Interview with Wade Wells

Interview with Wade Wells

wade wellsNext in my series of Interviews is Wade Wells.  I have to be honest, I never met Wade and I’ve never seen a picture of Wade.  But I love the software and information product Wade creates.

For those who don’t know, Wade Wells is the creator of phpBay Pro, affiliate software for displaying eBay product listings on your website or blog.  phpBay Pro was one of the first ways I was able to make money online.

Wade is a very private person which is why I was so extremely happy when agreed to be interviewed for this series.

Wade provides some great insight into what it’s like to create and support your own piece of software.

Here is my Interview with Wade Wells


Get the entire interview series at

Joe: Hi! This is Joe Wilson from Today I’m happy to have the opportunity to interview Wade Wells, the creator of some of the most well known affiliate software for WordPress, phpBay, and phpZon. I’m interviewing Wade in this special interview series on marketing breakthroughs and how to make $10,000 creating your own products that will rocket you to success. So, welcome to the call Wade!

Wade: Hey! Thanks Joe! I appreciate it!

Joe: Not a problem. And thank you very much for your time and being here. I’m sure you have a busy time going on with all the Amazon changes right now.

Wade: Definitely. Lots of great things going on.

Joe: Yeah, yeah, there really is. So, I guess one of the things that this interview series is about is about product creation, and I just wanted to ask you, if you were to start over from scratch…and this is for folks who are listening who are maybe considering creating their own products…what words of advice would you have for anybody whose thinking about creating their own product?

Wade: I would say focus on products that are going to help other people…something that you could use yourself…where you could go in and kind of create it to your standards, to your liking…and once you’ve got it to a point where you think it’s worth marketing or putting out there, try to get on a really busy forum like SitePoint or Digital Point or something like that, and just start talking about it and making people aware of the product.

Joe: Ok. What would… I guess…when somebody says they’re going to start with a new product, what do you think…what would be the best…say if they’re brand new…do you think starting with a basic ebook or info product would be the best way to start with and then just kind of work up from there?

Interview with Wade WellsWade: You know it really kind of depends on the level of experience that the developer has. In my case I had some experience with programming for many years and I was just getting up to speed with php, so I first started with that perspective. Anything that you have or any special skill that you have that’s going to save people time and money, then do something that’s beneficial to them. That would work really well.

Joe: So you definitely had a…and I think I’ve read that before…you were a developer in a past life and then kind of carried that forward to what you’re doing with phpBay.

Wade: I did. I’ve been developing software in various forms and various languages since about 1985. So I was moving off of using dellfy at the time for windows desktop application and moving into php. So, it definitely helped.

Joe: Did you find that making a move like that…because I’ve played with php. It seems like a fairly, fairly…well, from a coding standpoint…a fairly easy coding or scripting language to pick up.

Wade: I think so. You know, it definitely took some time. Basically, the way I look at things from a programming standpoint, is I understand that I want to do something and you just start looking up…maybe on the web…how do you want to do that?  And that’s how I started converting over to…from Dellfy from a PASCAL based-type scripting language over into a php…which a lot of people say is more like C…and just focusing and looking at code examples and seeing “ok I need to do this…” and just start doing little pieces one at a time until you start building up, and you have something you can work with.

Joe: Let me back up a little bit. What was the first product you ever created? Was it phpBay?

Wade: No. I had created…you know back in the mid 90’s and really at the late 80’s…well, it would be the early 90’s, I worked for a software company called Authorware and it was a small company that many people have probably never heard of, and it ultimately went on to become MacroMedia. Since then MacroMedia has been bought by Adobe, so it really went from a really small company in Minnesota, to a major worldwide company. But I programmed in that software language for 12 years. Back in the mid 90’s, a friend of mine and I started a multimedia company, and we developed a set of templates for Authorware that would allow training developers to go in and really just set up a few on/off type switches within the template so you say “I want this on and I want this off and I want it to look like this and I want it to do this…” Lots of options there and the idea was to make it as simple as possible for other developers who may not be experienced with the product to go in and be able to start developing training.

So, we did that and sent it out, but that was never really the focus of our business. We were consultants back then for American Airlines, for Pacific Bell, Delta Airlines… we did a lot of work around the country. So, that was sort of our…we called it our Dr. Pepper money. But you know products like that, what we were doing, would stock the refrigerator with Dr. Pepper….those late night work sessions.

Joe: Yeah….So, how did that transition? How did you move into…I guess what’s now called internet marketing…going from that to where you’re at today?

Wade:  Well, the transition from there really sort of happened after….you know we’re developing training for big companies. They may have employees that will sit down and take computer based training for a specific skill within the company, and that frees up their instruction, their classroom time, instructor time, scheduling and stuff like that. So that was the big focus of what I’ve been doing for about 12 yrs.  And after 9/11 hit, anytime the economy takes a sharp turn or there’s a major presidential change or anything like that, companies get a little wary of what’s going to happen with their money and they tighten their budgets up, and the first thing they tighten up….you know training is a luxury in big industry, and that’s the first thing that they cut. And so, unfortunately we just couldn’t survive. You know there’s a whole lot of people who are in the same industry we were in that could not tough it out after that. So, I kind of went off on my own and I developed…that’s when I started picking up Dellfy and I thought I’d do some Windows application work and developing some plug-ins for Authorware and Macromedia Director, and I got to the point where I thought “If I’m selling products, and I’m selling something online, that’s a whole lot better than working for somebody else or doing something service oriented…like web design.” I was doing web design too, and I absolutely hated that because nobody ever wanted to pay you what a website was worth. So, I finally just got to the point where I said, “I’m gonna start focusing on web products and things that people can use…there’s got to be a market for it.” I just set out and immersed myself in the technologies, and…you know… here we are.

Joe: That’s great, that’s good to know. And I hear you, I’ve done the same thing. I’ve done a little web design, and of course, you know, it’s hard when you’re working with somebody. They’ll tell you a concept of what they think they want, and you do a design or a draft…or maybe you give them several to kind of choose from…and then you take it from there. But then it’s always a little tweak here, a little tweak there, and then you end up spending so much time….I know at least in my experience, you end up spending a lot more time than the job was originally…you know scope creep kind of kicks in…and then you spend more time than you planned on it.

Wade: Right. You get to the point where the customers want….I call it a marriage. They’re afraid to let go. They don’t want to let go of you or end the contract or what have you. I’ve experienced that a lot as well.

Joe: Yeah, definitely. I know what you’re talking about it. For me, you know back when the dot com bubble burst was a big one…things were going really big. I’m in technology too. Right now I work on Cisco routers during the day, and during the dot com period there was a lot of stuff going on and…a lot of start ups, a lot of work…and then just “poof” it was gone, and everybody was out of work.  And that was kind of what got me to just start looking at ways to not be dependent on an employer. You know, having multiple streams of income or what have you.

Anyway, so when the idea to first create, and when you started getting into…and correct me if I’m wrong…when you started getting into internet and web products, what made you decide to do something with ebay?

Wade: Back in 2004-2005…I guess it was around 2005…I had joined on Digital Point forums, and met some other guys that we had similar interests and we kind of became really good friends there, and there were things that we wanted to talk about…specifically with internet marketing and search engine optimization…but we wanted to do it amongst ourselves, and we started a little group off of that forum…and that was Will Spencer. Will Spencer is a phenomenal marketing guy. If you ever get a chance or an opportunity to interview him, I would definitely look him up. He’s an amazing businessman. I have just the greatest respect for him. So, it’s Will Spencer, another guy named Jeremy Craig, and another gentleman name Hinny. We all just got together on a forum and said, look, here’s all of our strengths. My strength was emerging as coding, but Will had just a tremendous business savvy about him, and of course he understood how search engines worked, and he understands search engine optimization. Jeremy had skills in affiliate marketing and how we could do things together to make something better there. Hinney was a phenomenal businessman there too, and he shared his part…and of course Craig was just an amazing…he did search engine optimization for a living. So we had all of these backgrounds in there with affiliate marketing, search engine optimization, and I was kind of doing the programming. Well, I didn’t have their skills, they didn’t have my skills, so we put everything out on the table and we said “well, we’re going to start off with Amazon and really hit it hard and see if we can start making some money there”.  And we worked with an existing Amazon script that I modified with recommendations coming from the other guys on what we could do in terms of SEO, in terms of how search engines are going to see things from an affiliate marketing perspective, and how customers are going to see these pages when they come up. And we just started focusing on that and it really worked out good. I would come up with the script and the guys would test it out and say “ok, here’s what I’m finding….here’s what I’m doing here…” and we all started putting websites out there, and we all made a pretty penny using Amazon.

Joe: So you started with Amazon first then?

Wade: I did, definitely. And we had gotten to that point with Amazon…right during that time frame is when Google came out with what’s known today as  “the duplicate content penalty”. We could get up into Yahoo, and sometimes Google, search results and like during the holidays we were just cleaning up and doing good. Not doing anything bad or anything illegal, just…we had our Amazon affiliate sites out there and we put all of our knowledge together, and tweaked some of the coding here and there so that we could rise up, and we worked together and really did well. Well, about that time, one of the guys said that maybe we should look into doing something with ebay as well too. So I started looking at working with ebay. I at first looked at the ebay api, I believe they had limitations…call limitations…well we were dealing with, you know, 2,3,400,500 thousand pages between all of us. You know, with five keys we were gonna hit that pretty quick. So I went from the ebay api over to the ebay…kind of the rss search query where there were no limitations, and started working off of that. And, you know I built an initial script. I never had…all of this was for our own internal stuff. We were doing really great. And the script turned out good. I got a lot of input from the guys, and we all went on to start making some good money there. Then one of the guys said “you know, you should really sell this”, and he sent me a link over to Digital Point where Bans had…the guys from Bans…great competitors by the way, I have the utmost respect for them…they had just come out with their product. And he said, “you know if this guy could do it, maybe you could as well too”. And you know, at first I was thinking “No, I really don’t want to get back into that or do that”. I didn’t think it would do very well. And they kept insisting…Craig especially kept insisting that I should really give it a try. And I did, and slowly but surely it started taking off. I kind of had a reputation going on Digital Point forums anyway. You know, it started off slow, and then months would pass by and every month just kept growing and growing and growing and I kept updating and updating and updating and you know, it just really grew from there.

Joe: So, was it always a WordPress plug-in, or was it stand alone at first?

Wade: When I first developed it  it was stand alone because none of us were using WordPress at the time. We had come up with some scripts where we could basically put in a huge list of key words in a little text file, and then you’d point and click on a button…and, you know…upload the script to your website, point and click on a button, and boom, it develops a thousand web pages for you…just like that.

Joe: That’s like a dream come true.

Wade: It was. We were looking for…you know the idea at the time was, we can’t be burdened by the development process. That has to be the minor part of it. The idea was to be able to set up a new site in 15-20 minutes and then move on and do the next one. So I was using a … you know for the ebay script…I was using a stand alone script at the time. And I knew a lot of people were using WordPress at the time, so I tried to implement it into WordPress without it being a plug-in by using…I think it was Exec php had just come out where you could execute php within it. You know I could get to the point where it would work, but it was really troublesome and cumbersome to try and get all of that set up in time. And I thought, you know customers are not going to go for this. And, if anything ever happened with that plug in, and MY plug in relied on it, then I would be out. So I just started researching on how to create a plug in for WordPress and sort of migrated everything into it.

Joe:  Yeah, you had mentioned Bans…and that’s how I first started into all this, was using Bans, and that was really incredible. And then Bans kind of got…I don’t what they did…but they seemed to upset the mighty Google. And really got…I don’t know if it was just the way they were redirecting, or the way they were doing their affiliate links, but it seemed like…I know I experienced…I don’t know if you could shed any light on that…on what happened…what was the downfall to why Bans died, but yet products like yours had lived?

Wade: I think there’s a real good explanation for that. I really think that Bans gets sort of a bad rap for that. I think there’s a lot of people…yeah, they went out there and kind of assumed that. I remember when it was happening, I was thinking I don’t agree with that because I know what’s going on. And it’s not because of their software or my software or anybody else’s software that’s going to cause something like that. Google focuses on thin affiliate sites and Bans is…was developed…so that out of the box, without doing a whole lot of work, you could really make thin sites really quick. Well, if that’s what Google is focusing on trying to purge out, or at least keep at bay…you know I think that was really more of what the problem was because you would have web page after web page after web page that had nothing but 40, 50, 60, maybe even up to a hundred…nothing but outbound links with no context. A lot of people were creating web sites and they were using not only Bans, but my product as well and other products as a method of populating content on their page without any unique content. I really think that’s where that comes in. I know I have customers as well who…it’s sort of like you reap what you sow.  If you sow really thin sites that there’s not a lot of work, there’s not a lot of effort in, well, don’t expect to get a whole lot back out of them. Versus if you focus more on quality, you’re probably going to get a better return on your investment in terms of time. So I think that’s what happened with Bans. I don’t think it’s any particular software. I struggle with that myself. You know I have customers sometimes that will come in and say their site was banned…I guarantee you though, one of the things I always ask is can we take a look at the site so we can do some analysis on it, and usually people don’t want to give you their site. They don’t want to know they didn’t do all the right things they were supposed to do, and they just developed this little thin site and what have you.

Joe:  Yeah, it’s kind of like you’ve given people this very powerful tool that could….they could wield it to do good, or…

Wade: They could do bad. You know, the thing is if you take Bans and you take a page, and you go in and you put maybe 10 listings in it…and you put some unique content up at the top and you put it at the bottom, and you add an image in and do your on page SEO, I doubt very seriously it’s gonna just up and be banned. Because when you go to a site, whether it’s Bans or phpBay or really anything else, and you do a view source on the page, it’s all just basically html content.

Joe: Sure. And people will say a lot of times that there’s a footprint…if you build all of your sites the same way, that Google will pick up on certain footprints. Ok, yeah, but it really comes around to Google is just looking out for their customers, and if they’re not providing quality search results, then they’re doing their own customers a disservice.

Wade: I’ve always thought that footprints were a bit overrated. I remember we were worried about footprints. You know I’ve done some…I like to call myself a green hat. I’m not black hat, I’m not white hat, I do whatever makes money as long as it’s legal and as long as I’m not stealing from somebody else. (laughing)I’m not the web police. I’m looking to make a living on the web, and certainly there’s some areas in there you can venture into, but I think mostly that people focus on….You know where a lot of people would focus on footprints is if they were doing something they knew was…not to use the term “illegal”…but would violate the search engines terms of use or their standards or their policies, people would be a little bit more concerned with footprints. Affiliates are not bad with Google. It’s when you go in and you create nothing but a thin site with nothing but a bunch of outbound links, where there’s no quality, there’s no content, there’s nothing else. They’re gonna target that, and they’re gonna do it. Some will get through and some will not, and that’s just the way it’s gonna be. But I don’t think footprints are a really big concern there because you’re not doing anything wrong, you’re just not doing anything right.

Joe: When you’re acting as an affiliate, the idea is that you’re either reviewing the product or you’re doing some sort of pre-sell to provide extra value to the people. Like ok, I’m looking for a camera, but what kind of camera do I want? Provide some information there to allow people to make that decision.

Wade: Exactly.

Joe: I think…and you know it’s human nature…I’ve done the same thing where you want to be able to push a button, walk away, and all of a sudden you don’t have to work for the rest of your life. You know, wouldn’t we all love that?

Wade: Yeah, those days were gone in the late 90’s…(laughing)…and they were there too! Back then it was “if you build it, they will come”.  Those days are long gone. There’s just…and you know I still get customers, potential customers, that will….you know they want a software product that has A button that will wash their car, put the tire shine on the tires and the wheels, it will give them a bath, build their website…do this, do that…and that’s just way out of bounds there. It’s not gonna happen.

Joe: When we’re talking about creating products, and you know we’ve been talking a lot about your history and how you’ve come to where you are today…what do you think if you were to say…ok, something happened devastating that occurred to Bans and phpBay was no more and you wanted to start over, what do you think your biggest challenge would be? And this is really more toward new people. What do they face? What do you think are the biggest challenges people face today when they’re creating new products online?

Wade:  I think getting the word out is going to be definitely one of the biggest challenges because…you know it’s difficult. The web is a big place and you can go anywhere, but trying to find areas where there’s a lot of concentrated users that would be interested in the type of product that you have can be challenging.

Joe: Definitely. Finding those hungry buyers that may want your product sometimes…unless you know where to go, where the water hole is, it’s kind of hard to find them. I think that’s where Digital Point and places like Warrior Forums have both been really helpful to… at least in the IM niche.

Wade: Definitely, definitely.

Joe: There’s like a key moment where things just kind of click and all of a sudden you just find yourself being propelled forward and you realize you’ve hit on something. What was that key moment for you? If you remember? Was it way back when you were running those scripts?

Wade: Well, I think…I want to say I started phpBay in December of 2007 I believe. I actually started it back in October, but that was when we were kind of working as a team and by December I had kind of put it together and thought “well, I’ll try and market it a little bit”. So, it was definitely well into 2008, and I’d say maybe 8 months to a year after that, where the product…I had definitely worked on updates, definitely trying to keep customers happy…which usually is a part of it, but there’s some challenges there as well too.  So people were commenting on the products, or recommending it to others, and sales started coming in fairly regularly. And I thought “it made it, it did it”, and it was really an interesting feeling when it happened.

Joe: I bet. I bet it was. I love your product. I think it’s awesome, and the support that we get…you know just like recently with phpZon  and the changes Amazon made with the reviews…you were right on it and released an update right away which was awesome.

Wade: Yeah, it’s really the difference between life and death being out there. Those updates are probably the most challenging part of this business, because no matter what you do, or how well you try and do it…you can get 95% of the customers on an update but there’s always gonna be some that have a server that you know, well, it worked fine on mine and it’s working on everybody else’s but you’re on some strange server I’ve never heard of before. It’s not working. So, you’ve got to go in and get it taken care of and see if you can find a resolution. Really the idea of those updates is to try and minimize that as much as possible and try to do it as quickly as possible so those who may not have updated on day 1, but are now updating on day 2…or maybe they’re updated on day 3 or day 4…they don’t have to go through any of those little minor tribulations.

Joe: Right. I remember a while back…well, ebay has made their fair share of changes and luckily it always seemed like it was a very small update auction dot php or something like that and it was just a quick, easy update.

Wade: Definitely. Ebay updates are even more challenging because…you know, just in past history, they’ll tell you the day of that they make a change. Or in the case of the last one, I think they gave a 24 hr notice. I was thinking “wow”. You know, thousands and thousands, and thousands of customers…what if I had been off on vacation? I always take my laptop with me when I go on vacation, but you know that short notice that’s such a drastic change that will affect so many people…it certainly will keep you on your toes, real quick.

Joe: No doubt. One way to ruin a vacation, that’s for sure.

Wade: Absolutely.

Joe: So, you had mentioned earlier that the biggest challenge that you feel for somebody who’s going to be coming out with their own product is to get the word out there and let people know. What kind of advice would you give to someone who needs to get the word out? Can you give any suggestions on what they would need to do in order to help? I know there’s standard advertising, but do you have any other words of advice for someone doing that?

Wade: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Of course the first thing you want to do is kind of get on some big forums and let people know. I wouldn’t say do a hard sale or push it, but just “hey I’ve got this great new product that I’ve worked on over here, if you’re interested take a look. It does this, this, and this and here’s the price” and just be casual, be yourself, don’t do a hard sell. You’ll get hit for spamming and stuff like that, but just kind of let it know. But the most important thing that I did early on was I set up an affiliate program. That’s probably the best advice that I can give to anybody that’s starting off in this business because a lot of people will look at it and say, “well, yeah, but if I’ve got affiliates and I’m going to have to pay them 30%,40%,50%, and so I’m losing that money”. Absolutely not. That is absolutely false. That is just an absolute myth because what happens is that you’re going to get the sales that you would get normally coming through your website or coming through people who have visited posts on your forum and what have you…you’re going to get those. You’re going to get it through word of mouth. What the affiliate program is gonna do for you is it’s gonna bring people in that say “hey..I like the software. I own it as well too. I can write a short page on the web and put my affiliate link at the bottom”…and then I’ve got 400 people on my subscribed list. Well, I’ll send out an update to my subscribed users pointing back to this page, and then that affiliate starts making sales with his followers and he’s making money. You’re making more money because even though you’re not getting the full price of it, you’re still bringing in more business than you would have without that affiliate. And it’s just on and on and on. That’s probably the single best decision I ever made was to add that affiliate program in there. You know you’re gonna get…I think I read somewhere that maybe 1-3% of all affiliates in an affiliate program generate 90% of the revenue. I would definitely agree with that. I have a lot of people in my affiliate program, but a lot of them….you know they’ll promote for a little while or they’ll move on to something else, so you want to keep your affiliates coming in it fresh. Another thing too is to make sure and pay them on time and that’s one of the things that a lot of my affiliates compliment me on. I’m an affiliate as well too, and the worst thing that I hate is going through the month of June, and I’ve earned $1000, but then I have to wait all through July and into the middle of August in order to get paid. No one wants to wait around that long. So on my affiliate program I close out on the last day of the month at midnight, and then the following day on the 1st I pay affiliates.  You know, I’m an affiliate too. Some of these guys they need their money. They’ve got bills, they’ve got rent…you know, whatever the case is, I make sure I pay on the 1st. Now my terms of service will say up until the 5th, and that’s only there in case I’m in the hospital or something major, but I don’t…I can’t remember a time in the last 3 years that I haven’t  paid on the 1st. And so that’s the idea. Get your affiliates in there and they’re going to start promoting your product for you. You know, that’s where it’s going to explode on the web, when you start getting affiliates in there. And give them a generous payout and make sure you take care of them. Get them their money on the 1st.

Joe: Do you run your own affiliate program?

Wade: I do. That’s really a challenge too because a lot of people are like… well you’re the one approving those affiliate sales…and I go through that from time to time and I understand people’s concerns on that. What I try to tell my affiliates to do is add something of value. Get people to click on your link by saying…I’m going to give you a 5 page tutorial on the fastest way to get phpZon pro set up or phpBay pro…give them something of value. That way after the sale, that customer is going to send you his PayPal transaction id and you’ve got a record of the sale through that way as well as through the affiliate program.

Joe: Is there….for someone who’s say maybe wanting to set up affiliates or get affiliates…is there any programs that you would recommend that are out there? I know pay dot com has one…is there any that you might recommend?

Wade: I would say ejunkie just because I’ve seen a lot of guys use ejunkie as well too. I chose to set mine up in house using…it’s called jam by…using their program because I wanted to tie that in. I wanted to have my website, I wanted to have the store, so I could control all the downloads and make sure that all of my users were in one place, and at the same time the affiliate program ties into all that.

Joe: Yeah, I was trying to think of…because I know the membership software, does that tie in with the affiliate software together?  Do they work together or is that separate?

Wade: They do. I use Amember for…

Joe: Amember! That’s what it is.

Wade: That’s a pretty popular one for the store. But I struggle with that up front because my first thoughts know, what if it doesn’t work out or what if it doesn’t get too big? Or what if it does? Do you want to go back and manually transfer each and every customer over to a new store software? Or go ahead and get what a lot of people suggest are the very best right now and just go ahead and run with it.

Joe: Yeah, I’ve done it before. It’s painful. Doing a database transfer from one place to another…no fun.  It isn’t fun at all.

So Wade, what pitfalls did you run into when creating phpBay or any of your other products?

Wade: Well, basically there’s 3 pitfalls. One is, I would say, security. The other I would say is support. And the third one I would say is sort of a second marriage. And let’s just hit on each of these. Security was, I would say, the biggest thorn in initial development because I was a little naïve. I came in, I developed the software, and you know I wanted to make sure people would be able to edit it and make changes and kind of not lock it down, and that turned out to not be such a good thing because it wasn’t long after that that I started seeing my product over on certain forums that maybe not everybody would visit…you know, for free. And it’s really discouraging because you know, you work your tail end off…this is what’s putting food on the table…and people are giving it out free.

Joe: You even..ioncube? Is that what it was? A security mechanism?

Wade: I did. You know what drove me to get to that point was there was a guy who actually took my software, and he simply changed the logo and the title, and didn’t even change the rest of the code. In fact, if you just opened it up and looked at the rest of the code you would see phpBay all in it. So this guy took it and put up another website and called it XYZ product and…

Joe: No kidding! Wow.

Wade: Yeah, and just absolutely ripped it off. And I tried to go after the guy, secured an attorney…they said this could be anywhere from $1000 all the way up to $60,000. And I thought, you know, I’m not even quite making that right now. You know there’s got to be some realisticness there…so security is definitely an issue and I went with ioncube. The challenge there is that a lot of people would be on a host that didn’t have ioncube, and it just became a really huge burden for my customers. So I finally got to the point where I said no. I’m going to do something else that doesn’t require a loader and find a balance between that extreme and trying to protect the software from people just outright stealing it. So, that was definitely a challenge and it’s one that I continue to work on. It’s unfortunate that you have to worry about that, but it you don’t…your products going to…you’ll watch your sales slide, you’ll wonder what’s going on…you’ve got to stay on top of it. You know it just wasn’t worth the trip, so there’s got to be some security in there.

The second issue being on support…it’s a double-edged sword. It’s absolutely important to make sure customers are taken care of. I’ve seen software developers that’ll have a product, and you look on their forums and a guy posts a problem on Monday and the following Sunday there’s a reply or response. That’s just inadequate. So I try to do that every day on a daily basis. I try to make sure everybody’s taken care of, though probably 90% of my customers will buy the software, they’ll open up the zip file, they’ll read the instructions or the user manual, they’ll install it, they’ll start earning money, and I never hear from them again. And that’s as close to a number…you know at 90%…you just want to keep working to get it 91%,92%,93%, as high as possible because the less time you spend in support the more time you have for family life, for developing your futures. I’d say about 6% of my customers have…they really didn’t read the manual or they’ve got a little bump or whatever. They’re just looking for a quick solution, and then they jump right over with that 90% too. You hardly ever hear from them again. And then you have the 3%….the 3% it’s going to be something beyond their control. Maybe they have a web server that has disabled something or that isn’t standard with other ones so it’s just not working right and it’s not anything they’re doing wrong… so you get in, you address it, and again, for the most part, they move on. Then you have the 1%, and these are people who are dedicated to making your life miserable. (laughing) The 1% are your worst nightmare. These are people that are narcissistic. They are demanding. They are rude, discourteous, believe they’re the king of the world and yada, yada, yada. They definitely will make for interested clients, to say the least. You get some in that 1% category who are lonely, believe it or not. Sometimes I’ve had a customer who I could just absolutely swear bought my software because he was lonely and he wanted somebody to talk to and through support you kind of have to respond. So you want to get rid of those as soon as you can. Resolve them, get them moved on, they’re no fun, they definitely make it challenging in the business. It’s not so bad when you have the 100 customers or 200 customers, or maybe 500 customers…but when you’re 8,000-10,000 customers and you take 1% of that, that’s 80-100 people that are like that. You know and an update or something, it certainly makes you want to pull your hair out.

Joe: No doubt. The closest I’ve come to doing any kind of software development was creating some WordPress themes and that alone is enough because weird little things happen and it’s not really….but it’s enough where you’ve got to be on top of it. Your reputation is at stake, and people are like…you know…you’re like “I’m sorry, let me get into your website and I will fix it for you”.

Wade: Exactly.

Joe: Wade, let’s see….that’s about all I had. The last thing is a last tidbit or piece of advice you might give somebody who is considering getting into product creation if you have anything, but there’s a lot of tips you’ve already given out so…I didn’t know if you might have anything else that we can leave with?

Wade: I would just say that if it’s a product that you believe would help you…not necessarily somebody else..but make a product that’s going to help you do something better. And make it as good as you possibly can, and stand behind it, and if you really believe in it get out and promote it.  Because if it works for you, if it solves a problem for you, if it makes development or internet marketing or anything else that you’re doing faster and easier, then other people are going to be interested in it as well.

Joe: I would agree, and that’s where…well, that’s how a lot of your products came to be right? You were just solving something for yourself and there you go…you’ve got your own Rocket to Success.

Wade: Definitely.

Joe: So what are you up to these days? PhpBay and phpBay pro, phpZon pro…what’ve you been up to lately? Do you have any new products in the works?

Wade: Not yet. I definitely have at least one more product that I want to start focusing on, and I’d hoped to get to it by the end of the year, but you know with the updates..and of course phpBay and phpZon, those break down into 2 products each. One is for api and one is for WordPress so it’s really maintaining 4 products. So with the updates that took place this year and the business growing as well, it’s definitely kept me on my toes from pursuing the next project. But I definitely have one more project at least that I want to hit, and I’m not going to say what the affiliate program is because I want to keep that as a surprise. But I think it will be a good product and I think it will be one that people will enjoy using, and will certainly give at least my customers another revenue stream or another opportunity to pull in earnings.

Joe: Well that will be awesome because we can all use another revenue stream I think.

Wade: Absolutely.

Joe: Well, Wade…thank you so much. I really appreciate your time and sharing your history and some of your experience with us today.

Wade: It was my pleasure! It was wonderful to talk with you and I hope this will help somebody else that is looking into getting started into this business.

Joe: I definitely know it will. Thanks Wade.

Wade: Thank you!

Posted in Wade Wells0 Comments

Interview with Jason Fladlien

jason fladlienI first heard of Jason Fladlien through James Jones and Brian Johnson. He was very energetic with a kind of cooky laugh that was infectious.  I had attended a couple free webinars by Jason where I finally signed up for one of his product creation coaching classes.

I have to tell you after getting to know Jason he is the master of digital information product creation.  And if you ever get a chance to take any of his classes you will come away with way more that you could ever hope for.  Jason really delivers and his success is because of it!

More recently Jason has been coming out with some really great software. One of which is WP Twin, an incredible WordPress application Jason created along with Wil Mattos for backing up, duplicating, or  moving your WordPress blogs.

In this interview Jason hits on some of his best tips for product creation. Listen closely because Jason throws out a lots of information very quickly.

Here is the Interview with Jason Fladlien


Get the entire interview series at

Hi, this is Joe Wilson from  Today I have the great pleasure of interviewing Jason Fladlien as part of our special interview series on marketing breakthroughs and how to make $10,000 creating your own products that will rocket you to success.  So Jason, welcome to the call.

JASON: Thanks for having me here Joe.

JOE: Thank you so much.  I really appreciate you taking the time.  I know you are one of the busiest online business people that I’ve come to have the pleasure of knowing.

Our interview series that we’re doing today is basically asking successful product creators like yourself, if you lost it all, had no list, nothing but what you know today, had three months to create a new product to make $10,000, what would you do?

Interview with Jason FladlienJASON: That’s it, that’s the challenge?  I’m just kidding.  That’s an excellent question.  If I had to start all the way from scratch, we’ve got nothing.  No contacts, all that I’ve got is the knowledge I’ve gained over the years, and now I’m going to do this, and I want to get back to $10,000 within three months, what I’d do is go right into the internet marketing niche which I think is actually contrary to what everybody says.  I think it’s one of the easiest niches to make money online in.  Specifically for one reason; there’s a place called the Warrior forum at and there is not a traffic source that is more ripe with people ready to purchase something that you can tap into very quickly than the Warrior forum that I know of.

Just to give you an example, I’m on the Warrior forum right now, and I’m going to look and see how many people are currently also on the forum – 4,917.  I like that!  So the first thing I’m going to do though is use the Warrior forum because that is going to be my traffic source.  So what would make most sense is to find a product or a solution that people on the Warrior forum themselves would love to have.  So that’s a matter of being as simple as clicking on the main forum which is called the main internet marketing discussion forum.

So I click on that and I’m going to look at this and see what’s going on here.  What are people asking most about as far as what the hot topics are right now in the Warrior forum?  So this is interesting.  If you go back three months the hot topics back then were completely different than they are right now and in three months they’ll be completely different from what they are now.  But as I’m going through here I see some stuff on, just for the headlines is what I’m really looking for, and I’m scanning and down I’m seeing that there’s this really hot thread right now.  150 plus web sites making six to one hundred dollars per day, you can do this too Mom, on Business Track.  It’s got 289 replies and it’s got 9,841 views.  So I’m like, that’s a hot topic.  If you actually read the thread, the guy gives away, in a nutshell – he doesn’t get too in depth in it, his whole strategy and how he does that.  So that’s great.

So I’m scanning down now and I’m looking for something else that’s a hot topic and I basically really look for the views.  That’s the most important thing.  You have to keep in mind when you’re looking at views that sometimes it’s a gossipy topic.  Like somebody’s complaining now about how the Warrior forum now has banners.  That’s not going to be any value to us.  I’m specifically looking for people that are doing really well by giving away a whole strategy.  So here’s what’s funny.  I’m on page two now and it says 235 plus websites making $4 to $50 per day, this is how I do it.   And this is somebody else listing this out.  He has 550 replies, 33,047 reviews.  So what’s interesting is the hot, hot, hot topic right now is people talking about how they make a whole bunch of sites that only make a little bit of money each day and this is how they do it.  So that’s a really, really strong topic and I could stop my research right there if I wanted to and say this would be a slam dunk product to create.  There’s only one issue though.  That issue is that I have no experience in creating hundreds of websites that each only make $10 to $20 per day.  So what do I do?  The issue people have when they create products, Joe, is that they think they have to have the knowledge themselves.  That can be helpful in the sense that you can get it done easier.  There’s a lot of knowledgeable topics that I’m very conversant in.  Let’s fire up Audacity, hit record, and I’ll talk into a microphone for three hours and when I’m done I’ve got a product I can sell for $47.  That’s wonderful by the way.  It’s good to have those products.

We want one good product that’s going to sell like wildfire.  I don’t need to have my own expertise.  I just need to know how to leverage other people’s expertise.  So first of all, I’m going to take those two guys who gave away their whole model.  What’s so funny, and this is more insightful as to why so many people struggle with internet marketing than anything, I read through those threads.  I’ve looked at those threads before, and the guy will literally say “this is how I do it, this is how I set up my word press blog, this is the pinging thing that I go to” and he lays out the whole thing.  It’s step by step.  Then somebody will pop up and say “well what about sub domain.  Can you use sub domain?”  Then there’s a 150 word answer for that.  Then somebody else will pop up and say “I don’t know how to make the menu work properly” and there’s a 500 word answer for that.  Then somebody else will pop up and say “where do I get some good WordPress themes” and there’s a 500 word answer for that.

What’s so funny is these people are being very charitable giving away all their information for free in a pretty complete, thorough format.  They didn’t get into all the technical, little, miner stuff but it’s good enough.  A guy like me who’s ambitious; I would look at that plan and say, “that’s great.  I’m going to run with that and figure it out on my own now.”  But these people say that’s great, let me ask you one little small question that doesn’t make a bit of difference, wait for the answer, and then maybe ask another question.  But they don’t take any action.  They just sit there and ask questions.  And one of the biggest reasons they do that, Joe, is because they got the information for free.  If they paid something and invested something in that, I bet you they would act little bit differently on that.

That’s good news for us.  Because what we want to do is we want to create a guide on this with a hundred plus sites that answer every single one of these stupid little questions in absolute minutiae detail.  I mean thorough as the day is long.  So we aren’t going to take anything for granted.  We’re going to document the whole process.  That’s what we’re going to do.  We’re going to document every process.  But really quickly before we do that, we’re going to tell all the people, I’m going to contact both of those guys and say “With your permission, would it be ok if I documented your process?  I will give you a cut on the sales if it’s totally cool with you that I do that.”

So I can say that I can use his likeness on the sales letter.  “Now you’re going to discover how this guy John has built 135 sites that each average between four and sixty dollars a day. You’re going to get every step in the process.”  That’s going to be the picture and I’m just going to tell him if it’s ok that I do that, create the whole product and split some of the money with him.  I’m going to be as thorough as I possibly can.  I’m going to cover every single thing.  I just want his proof that it works and then I’m going to be the diligent researcher and research everything.

The first thing I’m going to do is I’m going to go through both of those threads and the 400 plus replies and I’m going to pull out every single question.  I’m going to categorize that into a step by step process.  So they listed out a step by step process and I’ll take all of those questions and say, “that would be under this step, that would be under this step, that would be under this step,” until I have all of these 100 plus questions that people have organized.  Then I simply walk through and I write a whole report and maybe shoot some video on it as well that just answers every single question on there that someone can think of.  And that’s my product.  So that product might take a little bit to create but you know it’s going to be a goldmine because people are going nuts for that stuff.

So now we can leverage it a couple of ways.  The first way that I’m going to do is run a WSO for $40 on the Warrior Forum Special Offer Section and I’ll make that back in no time.  Then I’m going to continue to bump that because every time it falls off of page two, you can re-bump it for another $40 and I’m going to bump that thing until it’s no longer profitable.  I would imagine in this case it’s going to be a while before that’s no longer profitable.

I’m going to use a special pricing strategy that I know is very good for the Warrior Forum and that’s something that I call Peer Pricing.  Peer Pricing is simply this; I’m going to start the price really, really low but only for the first “X” number of people who buy, let’s just say ten.  The first ten people who buy, pay $4.90.  So that’s great because we’ll sell those out right away and most importantly, the Warrior Forum Special Review Section the conversions are driven more by the thread replies on people who bought it and reviewed it than they are on the sales copy.

So you can be straightforward on the sales copy and be straight to the point.  “Hey, I know this was a super hot topic in the Warrior From,” show a screen shot of those two threads, “and so I decided to pick these two guys whole business apart and give you the whole step by step process on how these guys are raking in this dough.  Here’s what you’re going to discover.”  List each chapter and give bullet points for each chapter.  Then you say “You want to order right away because if you are one of the first ten people it is just $4.90.  If you’re one of the next ten then it’s this price, this price, this price, and so on.”  You can use this thing at  It’s called Warriorpro, I think.


JASON: WSOpro, there you go.  And that will do the tier pricing for you.  So you’re probably thinking, “I don’t want to manually change the Paypal button every time.”  You don’t have to, you can just use that tool.  Or you can do it manually if you’re that budget conscious, you could do it manually or you could do it with WSOpro.  I would recommend you use WSOpro for a very specific reason.  The other reason we’re pricing it so low to start with, not only to get the good reviews which will fuel more people to review and will fuel people to take action immediately instead of thinking about it, but your conversion rate should be very good.  And so therefore you can contact the owner of WSOpro and ask him to do a WSO of the day or occasionally if you do it right, he’ll contact you and want to run you as the WSO of the day.  And you can get a lot of money doing that.  Boom, overnight sales.  You’re pumping it through the Warrior forum, and you’re pushing it hard, and things are going really good.  So we’re going to run that until it’s no longer profitable.  At the same time, I’m going to be posting on the Warrior forum the main forum at least five times a day and just replying to threads and giving good information, about 150 to 200 words of a reply.  The reason I’m doing that is I’m going to set my signature file.  My signature file for my profile for my Warrior profile and it’s going to say something like “WSO special: How to build 135 plus sites that each make between six and forty dollars a day on autopilot.  Click here to check this out”.  So I’m going to send them directly to my Warrior Special Offer from my signature and I’m going to be posting five times a day so people are going to see my stuff all over the place.

I’ll give you a little tip…  The off topic forum in the Warrior Forum section; you can talk about anything there but people will still on your link and buy.  So if you really want to put it out there in a lot of places, go to the off topic forum because you can talk about anything there.  But you can go onto the main forums too, find things that are somewhat related to your offer.  I mean you post some good content from your perspective, your opinion as a consumer, or some information for them and they see your signature file.  So we’re going to run that WSO and hopefully get WSO and we’re going to run it into the ground until it’s no longer profitable.

JOE: But that alone, it’s amazing how many people don’t even use their signature file.

JASON: Oh, I know.

JOE: That’s ad space, right there.  Free ad space there that no one’s using.

JASON: Yes, that’s absolutely right.  You could put anything there.  You couldn’t put an affiliate link but that’s ok.  You put a link to a blog with all your affiliate links in it.  I mean geez, do you want to make money or not!  You’re right though, Joe, a lot of people don’t use it.  You want to use it.  That’s just another way.  What’s really cool is that also fuels your WSO sells if you link to your WSO.  Because guess what?  The more views you have on your thread count and the more replies you have and the more activity you have going on there, the more people are going to want to open it and check it out because it’s social proof, right?

JOE: Yes.

JASON: So that’s great.  So we’re just going to hammer that thing until it’s no longer profitable.  We might even be able to break 10k just off that alone in three months, believe it or not.  I know plenty guys who have made ten thousand running WSO’s.  If not, no big deal, because we’re going to do a little bit of magic which is we’re going to capture every lead that buys from us.  There’s sophisticated ways to do it where I think WSOpro automatically adds them on to your list too if you set that up.  If not, do this.  On your download page, just put on step one “opt in here to get free updates for life.”  Step two, download your stuff, and you will get enough people to buy.  Because here’s what we’re going to do; as soon as it’s done being profitable on the Warrior forum, we are going to go and put that product on Clickbank.  So we’re going to set it up and get it approved on Clickbank so now we can start attracting affiliates.  The first thing we’re going to do to get our affiliates is go back to our buyers list.  I guarantee you the interesting thing about WSO’s is a lot of people who run WSO’s buy other people’s WSO’s because their skimming through the forum getting their own ideas for the next WSO they’re going to run.  Something catches their eye and then they buy it!  But that’s great because think about this: if other people are running WSO’s then they’re building a list too, correct?

JOE: Yes.

JASON: So aren’t they wonderful affiliates to have, and the answer of course is yes.  Because I don’t care how small or big their list is, I’ll take anything.  Because if that person makes one sale and I get half the profits on it, great!  I didn’t have to do anything.  Because all I’m going to do is set up a little page of copy and paste e-mail that they can stick in with their affiliate ID and I’m going to e-mail all my buyers and say, “hey, thank you so much for purchasing this product.  By the way, if you would like to be making money from this product, you should become an affiliate.  If you’re a Clickbank affiliate already, just put your Clickbank ID in to this URL and set up this copy and paste e-mail.  If you’re not, go here and sign up” and by the way encode a link for them to go and sign up so you can make money as an affiliate.  Then get them to promote for you.

You will get some promotion from that, I guarantee it.  You will absolutely get some promotion from those buyers on your list.  Somebody will promote it, at least one person, but sometimes several people will, especially with a hot product with some really good reviews.  So you just take the copy, rewrite it and put it on a standard sells page, but you take all the replies and those are testimonials.  Put those all on your sales letter so it looks pretty impressive.  Get some of those guys to initially promote it as an affiliate and if you do it right, maybe you get some good gravity in Clickbank, and then automatically, other affiliates will want to come and promote you.  If not, no big deal because what we’re going to do now is we’ve got a list from all the people that we’ve sold to in the Warrior forum and all of the affiliates that mailed for us.  We’re going to go back to the Warrior forum and we’re going to specifically look for people who run a lot of WSO’s. And again if you go to Warriorplus, there’s a thing called WSO tracking where you can look at who runs the most WSO’s.  I don’t recommend that you start at the top.  Start by looking for people who ran ten or fifteen WSO’s because they’ve probably got a decent list.  You’re going to approach them with a reciprocal mailing.  You’re basically going to say, “my list size is about this much and I can generate this many clicks for you.  I’m interested if you want to do a cross promotion.  If I mail for your offer on this day, will you mail for my offer.  Just let me know if that’s cool with you.”  The rest of your time with the three months are going to be doing nothing more than filling up joint venture promotions.  I know we’re only twenty minutes into this Joe, but that’s the whole plan.

JOE: What about other places outside of Warrior forum.  There’s other IM, or Digital Point or some of these other forums.  Hit those too?

JASON: That’s an excellent question.  I find Digital Point to be pretty much a waste of time. Warrior forum is the only internet marketing forum that works well.  But if you do want to expand your base, you can start doing other things like going to…  One of the things I do sometimes with clients is we go to Twitter and we find people with huge followings on Twitter and we get them to Tweet.  What we get them to Tweet specifically is to a video.  So we put a video on a regular html page, we have them Tweet out the video and at the bottom of the video they can click the affiliate link.  So we have people do that to Tweet it out there because I’ve found Tweeties directly to a sales page doesn’t work very effectively, but getting them to Tweet to just a regular video, with no sales pitch on it, just information. So maybe it’s five to ten minutes of good information.  So you’re thinking what information?  Take some of your cool tips from your product, turn that into a five minute video and say if you want to know more, click on the link below.  Get people on Twitter to Tweet that out to people on their list or their Twitter following.  What’s cool is sometimes other people will re-Tweet it, just to re-Tweet it even though they aren’t affiliates, they’ll Tweet that person’s affiliate link.  You’ll drive a lot of traffic that way.  It won’t be that high quality of traffic but you can get some sales that way but here’s the fun stuff, the real important stuff.

There’s a principal called commitment and consistency.  When somebody commits to something, they want to be consistent with their actions as it follows.  So they’re on our hot list.  If somebody Tweets on Twitter for us, then we follow up and say “Oh, by the way, maybe you should e-mail this to your list as well.”  Now they’re about ten times more likely to say yes to that because they’ve done a smaller, simpler act first.  It was just another Tweet.  So when you come back to them and ask them to do a greater task such as e-mail their list, they are more inclined to say yes, even without a reciprocal mailing.  I find time is better spent generating traffic like that than going to places like Digital Point but honestly you could spend a lot of your time just out on the Warrior forum and do pretty well.  But of course if you want to be ambitious, I’d say create another product.  Do the same thing and create another product and do the same thing.  So now you don’t just have one product, you have multiple products because you’ve done it, you’ve done the process.  You realize it isn’t magic, it’s just some hard work and some time that you but into it.  But when it’s all said and done, you worked it and just follow the procedure and you get results.

JOE: With that said, would you say that e-books are the product that people should start with?

JASON: I would say whatever is easiest for somebody to create.  If it’s an e-book, if you feel most comfortable writing, if that’s the easiest way for you to get the product done, then make it an e-book.  If you think you’re more comfortable speaking on audio, then speak on audio.  If you’re more comfortable and it would be easier for you to do video, then do video.  If it’s a product though, where it lends itself to be better illustrated by writing than any other medium then you’d probably want to write it.  If it’s something that illustrates more on video then you’d probably want to create video.

In the specific example that I gave, what I would do, is I would do a lot of writing for a pdf, and then I would shoot videos to supplement the contents in the pdf.  There’s a very specific reason why.  When you’re demonstrating specific technical stuff, shooting it on a video, sometimes you’re going to confuse them more unless you’re very smooth on the video.  I don’t want to practice to get smooth.  I can write it and just use a lot of screen shots.  I use a program called Snagit which I think was only about $25 or $30, but you could use free screen capture software if you prefer.  I just like Snagit because it has some really easy one click functionality to make my images look good.  I just literally walk them through a process, and I take screen shots and then Snagit allows me to draw arrows and callouts and stuff on the image.  I prefer to do that for technical stuff that I’m explaining.

If it’s general, let me show you something kind of stuff, then a video works really great because you don’t have to be super technical with it.  Again of course, if you’re more comfortable doing video the whole time, then just do video.  The way that you do the product is not really that important.  It’s just the fact that you got the information, it’s easy for people to reference, and you’ve done it in a way where you can get it done.  You can talk about different values, as far as people value a video higher than a pdf.  So maybe, that’s somewhat true.  Again, it depends on the contents.  But the thing is we just want to get the product done.  If we get it done with the methods I described, it doesn’t matter if you put it in a pdf or a video, or an audio or what because that information is something that people absolutely want to get their hands on.

JOE: And get it done.  Take action.

JASON: Yes, that’s the most important thing.  Do it in a way where you’ll get it done.  Don’t worry anything other than that.  That’s the number one priority is just making sure it gets done.

JOE: What do you think are some of the mistakes that people make when they are creating their own products?

JASON: The biggest mistake by far is they try to cover everything.  I see it all the time.  The thing is people want one solution typically when they buy a product for the most part.  They don’t want five solutions, they want one solution.  If they want five different solutions, they’re going to buy five different products that are specific to those five different specific solutions.

So to give you an idea of some of the products that I have that are out there, I’ve got to have a product on how to make money with Facebook fan pages. In this case, everything is tailored around making money with Facebook fan pages but even more specifically instead of giving them 27 different methods on making money with Facebook fan pages, I give them three methods.  They just want to make money with Facebook fan pages so I just pick the three best methods.

To give you another example, I have a product on how to create articles and then send them.  In that article, I don’t even talk about how to publish your articles on Ezine articles, how to submit your articles to get traffic.  I just say this is how to write an article period.  If you want to know all that other stuff, you’re going to have to buy other products.  I’m just going to teach you how to write articles fast.  I have a Squeeze Page product where I just specifically talk about how to create high converting Squeeze Pages.  I don’t talk about driving traffic to those Squeeze Pages, I don’t talk about e-mail marketing on the back end, I just say here’s how to make a Squeeze Page.  Since this is so tightly focused on one specific solution or I’m very narrow on the information I give but that information is so tight and so specific to a certain context, not only do my buyers get more value out of that and it’s easier to sell it to them because it’s so targeted to what they want, it doesn’t mean I have to take a lot of time to create it.   I’m not trying to cover every single base.  I’m covering the most important aspects of that one topic or that one problem that I’m solving.  That allows me to create the product very quick.  You’ll see people that are trying to cover every single little nuance or possibility that might exist out there with the information they’re teaching.  Not only is that a waste of your time but in the end you’re going to confuse your buyers even more so, the people who buy the product if you try cover everything.  So just get the most important main stuff and cover that really well and then forget about the little secondary stuff.  That will be something that will cause you to never get the product done, if you focus too much on that.

JOE: I can’t agree more.  I’m listening to you and I’m like “God, that’s me!  That’s so me!”  Where you come up with this amazing idea and then you think “oh, and then I could also do this” and you try to roll it all and it just doesn’t work.

JASON: Yes, because naturally when you create the product there will never be an end.  There’s always more you could add to it.  You’ve just got to learn to discipline yourself to say “enough is enough.”  I’ll give you a nice tip on that.  Whenever I create a product, especially just a simple digital product, I put a time limit on it.  I say this product will be done at this time at this day.  And so whatever I have at that time and that day, I have to go with it.  Since I forced myself to finish it within a certain deadline, naturally it makes me much more focused on the main, most important elements.  If I have time left over before my deadline is up, I can add in as much stuff as I want, or wish to.  But it just absolutely guards me from being my own worst enemy.  It makes me focus my time on getting the most important stuff done.  If I have any time left over I can put some little tweaks in it.  By that point I’m usually thinking that I’ve got time left over but I think it’s pretty good the way it is so let’s just run with it.

JOE: Great advice!  You mentioned that same advice in our product e-class, just sitting down and getting your product done in one sitting.

JASON: Yes, that’s the most fun.  Those products aren’t going to make you a lot of money but they can build you a decent list and get you really experienced and get you the confidence.  What I teach to my clients is you’re going to create a product in one sitting, meaning you sit down to start the product and when you get up, the product is finished.  You might have only two hours at most that you can put into banging this product out so that absolutely forces you to get right down to it and get some good information right away.

JOE: That is so true.  I banged out two products actually.  I was trying to go with one problem, one solution, like you were saying and I was looking at one issue for me was resource boxes.  It always seems that people write horrible resource boxes.  That was one of my WSO’s; “Why your resource box sucks.”  But it was one problem one solution and I just sat down and I banged it out.  I did it with your advice and it got it done.

JASON: Absolutely and you can repeat that over and over again.  With one little, small problem, sit down and bang out one product in one sitting and roll it out in the Warrior forum.  Just keep doing it over and over again and if you only make $1,000 each time you do that, you could easily make $4,000 to $6,000 per month just on the front end but each time you’re building a list, so each product you launch is going to make you a little bit more money because you have the buyers on your list that you can also notify about that new product as well.

JOE: That’s it, list of buyers.  If there’s one thing that our listeners should take action on immediately after this, what do you think that should be?

JASON:  They absolutely better have, before the end of the night, after listening to this interview, the idea for the product they want to create.  That is the bare minimum requirement because I’ve trained myself, Joe, and it’s made me a lot of money.  Any time I hear a good idea, I have to act on it, as soon as I get a free moment to act on it.  I don’t care if it’s a lot or a little action, just some action.  When I hear an idea that I think sounds good, the first chance I get, I’m moving towards trying it out.  I’ve made that a habit because I’ve trained myself to where I can’t stop myself from taking action because I hear a good idea – Boom, I’m off to the races.  So that’s what I recommend people do is every time you hear a good idea like tonight, Boom!  Immediately act on it and start working on it because you’ll condition yourself to make taking action a habit, your default setting instead of keeping procrastination as your default setting.

JOE: What about the overwhelm?  Sometimes when I see the idea, I end up with too much stuff that I want to do.

JASON: That’s why you have that deadline because then it won’t happen.  And stick to it!  It’s worth it.  It’s absolutely worth it if you can discipline yourself to do that, it makes everything infinitely easier in the long run.  I sat down there and I disciplined myself to do it.  Now I can’t stop myself.  It has to be done by this time.  I just naturally do it now because, again, I made it a habit.  If you try it the first time and you struggle a little bit with it, big deal.  That’s common!  Just make a little improvement the next time you do it and a little bit more improvement the next time you do it and before you know it, you’ll be saying “I’m an overnight success after all of these hours.”

JOE: Overnight!  Oh man!  So what have you been up to lately?  I know you released WP Twin which has been one of the best pieces of software that’s been released but what have you got going on these days?  What are you currently working on?

JASON: Mainly working on more software Joe.  I’ve noticed it’s a lot easier to sell software than an information product in internet marketing, for whatever reason that is.  Software is hard to develop so you have less competition because fewer people will want to develop it.  It takes some time to develop and it takes some money to develop because I don’t know how to program.  We’re going that route now because the thing is, and this is so funny, I’ve done so many products, around sixty plus products, that it’s no longer a challenge to me.  I can sit down and do it in my sleep.  So let’s go onto the next thing now.  To me, software is the next thing.  So I’m working on things like doing our own splash software.  But we’re going to make it Ajax instead of Java script.  Ajax is where your website is updated in real time without you having to hit refresh.  So we’re not confined to a Java prompt for anything that we want to design.

Then I’m working on my own webinar technology that will have dos streaming, video streaming as well as a PowerPoint demonstration at the same time.  That’s coming down the pipeline. I’m working on affiliate re-brander software; I’ve got a membership site strip coming out soon.  Then of course on top of that, we’ve got a list of seven or eight products that we’re going to be launching in the next three months.  So I stay busy!

JOE: That sounds like when I was writing the copy for this and I was writing a blurb about you and the first thing that came to mind was “Army of one.  Jason does more before nine am than most marketers do all day.”  I sent that to Mary Jo and I think she got a little kick out of it too.

JASON: Probably.  She hears it all the time though.

JOE: I can’t wait to see the new stuff you’ve got coming out and be able to actually get my hands on it.  MP Twin is… I’ve wanted cloning software for WordPress since I started working with WordPress because it’s such a pain to have to go in every single time.  It’s been a great time saver as well as backup and other things it can do.  It’s just really cool.

Alright Jason, thank you so much for all of your time here.  I know you’re a busy guy and I really appreciate you taking the time for you to come here and share some of your experiences with all our listeners here today.

JASON: Sure, absolutely.  Thanks for having me on, Joe.

JOE: Absolutely.  Hopefully we’ll get to talk to you again soon.

JASON: Alright, sounds good.

JOE: Thanks Jason.

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